Post any interesting links you find in the comment section.
- Bikes and streetcar tracks
- Bikes boost girls in Zambia
- Nokia launches bike-powered handset
- Make Bikes in the U.S., or Go Abroad to Cut Costs?
- Four LAPD officers accused of clashing with bicyclists are relieved of field duty
- Bill mandating cyclists use bike lanes is in Crist’s hands
- LA Bicycle Advisory Committee Convenes with LAPD as Tensions Run High
- San Clemente says bye-bye to bicycle fee
- Bicycle Vanity License Plate for Indiana
- Bicyclists sue Seattle over crashes on streetcar tracks
- Statistics alone paint an incomplete picture of women and bicycles
- Cambridge cellist to bike across the country, play free concerts
- Bike Portraits: a Fascinating Gallery of South African Cyclists
- ‘Bike doping’ probe by UCI is both sensible and timely
- Once prohibited, biking now a big part of Beach School
- Keeping Posties on their Bikes… Join the Campaign!
- Second Sunday Bike Ride to Take Over Airport Runway
- Seven Months Into Market Street Pilot, Most Drivers Getting the Message
What are people's thoughts on the bike/streetcar conflicts in light of the recent issues during the Cyclovia and more tracks coming downtown?
I'll throw out my initial reaction to give you something to chew on.
1. Part of riding a bike is dealing with multiple hazards/various road conditions. The only time I've had a problem with the tracks on 4th Ave is when I wasn't paying attention. I didn't go down, but it sure got my attention and I'm more cautious now. Warning signs, pavement paint/markings could probably help with informing people – especially at corners/intersections.
2. Both bikes and streetcars (transit) are differnent approaches to the same problem – cars/oil consumption etc. For the streetcar to be viable, it has to go down the street with dense population and business (4th ave/Univ etc). Same with bikes – people want to ride on these same areas. So we need to find a way to share that space while minimizing conflicts. All that to say I don't want to see a bike-streetcar war.
3. I've heard from PAG/City folks that the rubber gap filler won't work with the weight/frequency of the streetcars proposed for Tucson. Europe has been able to mix/mingle streetcars and bikes for a long time. Do they have these problems? If yes, how do they handle it?. If no, what are they doing different?
OK – your turn. What are your experiences, ideas for solutions? (Please be constructive – if you just want to bash someone or some idea, go somehwere else).
Not ever gonna happen in this country, but this is the most appealing idea I've seen in a long time.
http://cdn.trendhunter.com/phpthumbnails/64474_…
I always liked the idea of only allowing people to have gold carts than go no faster than 30 miles an hour.
I understand the thinking that you need to be aware or road hazards, but there are a lot of new riders who don't know that the tracks even are a hazard.
For some people it only takes one tumble to keep them off a bike for good.
There are a lot of smart engineers out there and I can't imagine they can't figure out a solution to this problem.
What about some sort of grate that is on a hinge, but requires a lot of weight to activate the hinge? A bike rolling over it wouldn't make the grate drop, but the trolley would.
I could see road paint helping with warning people about the tracks. Maybe black and yellow striped paint with little bicycles icons or something.
I agree that the streetcar issue is going to be an issue for those just trying biking – I've heard it said that it should be safe for little kids and old ladies.
I also agree that some serious attention-grabbing paint along the tracks is an easy place to start.
Anyone know how Portland deals with the Streetcar tracks? I just avoid University & 4th corner. I only travel down that way a few times a year and have never gotten used to the tracks so they always surprise me. Easier to cut across near Time Market and just avoid the 4th Avenue corner(when heading West).
Sounds like Mike has a good idea but I wonder if costs are a problem? Tucson always seems to cut corners and deal with the consequences latter.
Street car tracks are like city-installed potholes.
You can know they are there and be successful in
avoiding them 99.99% of the time. But the real
world is full of distractions. A car pulls out in
front of you, some loud noise, you reach around
to scratch an itch…and that's when tracks will
take you down.
Tucsonvelo is right…one tumble and that would be
it for the new riders the city is trying to attract.
They want to think cycling is unsafe anyway.
And the 4th Ave bike boulevard dumps riders right
out on an intersection full of tracks.
I don't think Portland put a streetcar on a major
bike route like here but they have problems, too.
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_…
The street car is not as much about transportation as
it is about commerce. The city is using it to attract
business.
The good thing is it seems to require a recession/depression
for the city to be able to afford to install a streetcar, so we
may not see any more. But the damage will be done to the
major bike route of central Tucson. I haven't seen or heard of
any solutions acceptable to the city yet…there may not be any.
On this photo of a sign for bike riders about streetcar tracks, I'm trying to have a discussion about what is the right symbol and text to quickly alert bike riders to the dangers of turning on and riding near streetcar tracks.
Tucson should try to figure this out for themselves (cuz no one else seems to have a good solution yet) because if things keep progressing, Tucson will have MORE tracks.
Re: 1. The issue with bike and streetcar conflicts is that many people are unaware of the very specific maneuver or action that leads to danger and a potential crash. That is, getting your bike tire in the gap between rail and rail bed (or flange) that seems to be designed to do exactly that – catch your bike tire.
See this discussion about the different signage Portland and Seattle use.
What does the paint tell the bike riders?
Paint: “There are streetcar tracks here.”
Bikers: “Yeah, I see that. What are you really trying to tell me?”
Paint: “Eh…”
How do you communicate that the biggest danger of the streetcar track is getting a narrow bike tire caught in the gap?
Don't forget about a rubber-filled flangeway that depresses as a train runs over it. Details here.
rubber-filled flangeway: nixed by the city. Streetcar not heavy
enough to displace it….too rapid UV deterioration in our
climate. High maintenance…(gasp!)
Special rail (European design) to significantly reduce the gap in the
rail and to be used in areas of high bicycle crossage: nixed by the city.
Too expensive, design not compatable with regular rail or something.
Move the line from University Blvd. to 2nd St. avoiding at least half
of the bicycle route and greatly simplifying two intersections.: nixed by the city.
Too much trouble, can't think outside the University Blvd. box. City wants
streetcar to deliver customers to business' door, like a tram down the center
of a Mall walkway.
Is there no “bike-minded person” among the engineers, designers and planners
who can say, “Look, this is what we have done to acknowledge and address
the existance and relevance of bicycle traffic on this route in an attempt
to make it less hazardous.”?
The Tucson Trolley seems to be a given: it is too late to go back and replace it with electric buses integrated with redesigned and tailor-made roadways which make more sense in a relatively short-haul and (theoretically) high volume market.
Do the light rail thing, if you must, over long hauls such as the back and forth on Broadway and on Speedway. But that is too costly…so “if you must” converts to “you can't.” As a result, the default action is a silly wasteful gtm thing like the trolley. No doubt train hobbyists, planners, City Council and local newstainment media will be proud upon cutting the ribbon five years from now. Careers will have been at stake and the catharsis will be grand to see!
If the Tucson trolley is to be a selfish charade, can they at least incorporate red or yellow paint around the tracks and maybe even reflectors? How about dedicated bike roads segregated from the trolley by the concrete slabs of “under construction” concrete lining most USA expressways during all of Red Star's life? Ban automobiles from 4th Avenue? And can they afford to maintain safety measures?
Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one to whom that point
seems obvious. I see it as a serious parallel with the Jose
Rincon incident out on east Broadway. The city probably
still doesn't see itself culpable in any way, but the people
spoke and a judge agreed…$12 million in consequences.
The city has made no effort to study the difficulties cyclists
have with tracks in the street.
A recent survey in a UA graduate study revealed that the 4th
Ave. underpass was the most avoided feature of downtown
streets for cyclists. I shake my head at the city putting in
another wildly expensive street feature that cyclists end up
having to avoid.
Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one to whom that point
seems obvious. I see it as a serious parallel with the Jose
Rincon incident out on east Broadway. The city probably
still doesn't see itself culpable in any way, but the people
spoke and a judge agreed…$12 million in consequences.
The city has made no effort to study the difficulties cyclists
have with tracks in the street.
A recent survey in a UA graduate study revealed that the 4th
Ave. underpass was the most avoided feature of downtown
streets for cyclists. I shake my head at the city putting in
another wildly expensive street feature that cyclists end up
having to avoid.
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