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16 thoughts on “Link roundup: June 3”
  1. What are people's thoughts on the bike/streetcar conflicts in light of the recent issues during the Cyclovia and more tracks coming downtown?

    I'll throw out my initial reaction to give you something to chew on.

    1. Part of riding a bike is dealing with multiple hazards/various road conditions. The only time I've had a problem with the tracks on 4th Ave is when I wasn't paying attention. I didn't go down, but it sure got my attention and I'm more cautious now. Warning signs, pavement paint/markings could probably help with informing people – especially at corners/intersections.

    2. Both bikes and streetcars (transit) are differnent approaches to the same problem – cars/oil consumption etc. For the streetcar to be viable, it has to go down the street with dense population and business (4th ave/Univ etc). Same with bikes – people want to ride on these same areas. So we need to find a way to share that space while minimizing conflicts. All that to say I don't want to see a bike-streetcar war.

    3. I've heard from PAG/City folks that the rubber gap filler won't work with the weight/frequency of the streetcars proposed for Tucson. Europe has been able to mix/mingle streetcars and bikes for a long time. Do they have these problems? If yes, how do they handle it?. If no, what are they doing different?

    OK – your turn. What are your experiences, ideas for solutions? (Please be constructive – if you just want to bash someone or some idea, go somehwere else).

  2. I always liked the idea of only allowing people to have gold carts than go no faster than 30 miles an hour.

  3. I understand the thinking that you need to be aware or road hazards, but there are a lot of new riders who don't know that the tracks even are a hazard.

    For some people it only takes one tumble to keep them off a bike for good.

    There are a lot of smart engineers out there and I can't imagine they can't figure out a solution to this problem.

    What about some sort of grate that is on a hinge, but requires a lot of weight to activate the hinge? A bike rolling over it wouldn't make the grate drop, but the trolley would.

    I could see road paint helping with warning people about the tracks. Maybe black and yellow striped paint with little bicycles icons or something.

  4. I agree that the streetcar issue is going to be an issue for those just trying biking – I've heard it said that it should be safe for little kids and old ladies.

    I also agree that some serious attention-grabbing paint along the tracks is an easy place to start.

  5. Anyone know how Portland deals with the Streetcar tracks? I just avoid University & 4th corner. I only travel down that way a few times a year and have never gotten used to the tracks so they always surprise me. Easier to cut across near Time Market and just avoid the 4th Avenue corner(when heading West).

    Sounds like Mike has a good idea but I wonder if costs are a problem? Tucson always seems to cut corners and deal with the consequences latter.

  6. Street car tracks are like city-installed potholes.
    You can know they are there and be successful in
    avoiding them 99.99% of the time. But the real
    world is full of distractions. A car pulls out in
    front of you, some loud noise, you reach around
    to scratch an itch…and that's when tracks will
    take you down.
    Tucsonvelo is right…one tumble and that would be
    it for the new riders the city is trying to attract.
    They want to think cycling is unsafe anyway.
    And the 4th Ave bike boulevard dumps riders right
    out on an intersection full of tracks.
    I don't think Portland put a streetcar on a major
    bike route like here but they have problems, too.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_

    The street car is not as much about transportation as
    it is about commerce. The city is using it to attract
    business.
    The good thing is it seems to require a recession/depression
    for the city to be able to afford to install a streetcar, so we
    may not see any more. But the damage will be done to the
    major bike route of central Tucson. I haven't seen or heard of
    any solutions acceptable to the city yet…there may not be any.

  7. Re: 1. The issue with bike and streetcar conflicts is that many people are unaware of the very specific maneuver or action that leads to danger and a potential crash. That is, getting your bike tire in the gap between rail and rail bed (or flange) that seems to be designed to do exactly that – catch your bike tire.

    See this discussion about the different signage Portland and Seattle use.

  8. What does the paint tell the bike riders?

    Paint: “There are streetcar tracks here.”
    Bikers: “Yeah, I see that. What are you really trying to tell me?”
    Paint: “Eh…”

    How do you communicate that the biggest danger of the streetcar track is getting a narrow bike tire caught in the gap?

  9. rubber-filled flangeway: nixed by the city. Streetcar not heavy
    enough to displace it….too rapid UV deterioration in our
    climate. High maintenance…(gasp!)

    Special rail (European design) to significantly reduce the gap in the
    rail and to be used in areas of high bicycle crossage: nixed by the city.
    Too expensive, design not compatable with regular rail or something.

    Move the line from University Blvd. to 2nd St. avoiding at least half
    of the bicycle route and greatly simplifying two intersections.: nixed by the city.
    Too much trouble, can't think outside the University Blvd. box. City wants
    streetcar to deliver customers to business' door, like a tram down the center
    of a Mall walkway.

    Is there no “bike-minded person” among the engineers, designers and planners
    who can say, “Look, this is what we have done to acknowledge and address
    the existance and relevance of bicycle traffic on this route in an attempt
    to make it less hazardous.”?

  10. The Tucson Trolley seems to be a given: it is too late to go back and replace it with electric buses integrated with redesigned and tailor-made roadways which make more sense in a relatively short-haul and (theoretically) high volume market.

    Do the light rail thing, if you must, over long hauls such as the back and forth on Broadway and on Speedway. But that is too costly…so “if you must” converts to “you can't.” As a result, the default action is a silly wasteful gtm thing like the trolley. No doubt train hobbyists, planners, City Council and local newstainment media will be proud upon cutting the ribbon five years from now. Careers will have been at stake and the catharsis will be grand to see!

    If the Tucson trolley is to be a selfish charade, can they at least incorporate red or yellow paint around the tracks and maybe even reflectors? How about dedicated bike roads segregated from the trolley by the concrete slabs of “under construction” concrete lining most USA expressways during all of Red Star's life? Ban automobiles from 4th Avenue? And can they afford to maintain safety measures?

  11. Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one to whom that point
    seems obvious. I see it as a serious parallel with the Jose
    Rincon incident out on east Broadway. The city probably
    still doesn't see itself culpable in any way, but the people
    spoke and a judge agreed…$12 million in consequences.
    The city has made no effort to study the difficulties cyclists
    have with tracks in the street.
    A recent survey in a UA graduate study revealed that the 4th
    Ave. underpass was the most avoided feature of downtown
    streets for cyclists. I shake my head at the city putting in
    another wildly expensive street feature that cyclists end up
    having to avoid.

  12. Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one to whom that point
    seems obvious. I see it as a serious parallel with the Jose
    Rincon incident out on east Broadway. The city probably
    still doesn't see itself culpable in any way, but the people
    spoke and a judge agreed…$12 million in consequences.
    The city has made no effort to study the difficulties cyclists
    have with tracks in the street.
    A recent survey in a UA graduate study revealed that the 4th
    Ave. underpass was the most avoided feature of downtown
    streets for cyclists. I shake my head at the city putting in
    another wildly expensive street feature that cyclists end up
    having to avoid.

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